Politics

The Soldier Supporter ….

By: Johnathan Douglas
May 14, 2010

The Soldier Supporter: If you can’t get behind our troops feel free to stand in front of em!!!

The Soldier Supporter: Who in hell are you to say soldiers aren’t heroes?! … Who’s the one out there getting shot at?!! …You’re just jealous because you wish you had the kind of balls it takes to do what they do!! … You go to hell you sick motherfucker!! … Hope you die in a terrifying nightmarish hell!!!

The Soldier Supporter: Have you ever been there?! …  You don’t know a God damn thing about soldiers!! … NOTHING!!! … How many soldiers have been murdered by IEDs,VBED’s, and snipers?!! … Killed by mortars and rockets?!

The Soldier Supporter: Truth is you haven’t got the balls to go outside a COP in Afghanistan or spend one day in Iraq out there as a grunt! … Up for three days frying your ass off with a hundred pounds of gear on your back waiting for the next trigger happy terrorist to come along who decides it’s a convenient time to try and take a shot!!

The Soldier Supporter: Have you ever seen the joy on a young girls face when she finally moves out of a tent and gets to go to school for the first time?! … In a real building for a change?! … Only to come along the next day and see her lying dead in the street? … I WANT SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY THANKS!!

The Soldier Supporter: Until you’ve been out there every day on the ground … Seeing what soldiers are seeing and are doing what soldiers are doing  you will not, nor can you ever understand it absolutely has to be done!! … While you sit there on your ass badmouthing, soldiers are risking their lives GIVING Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan,Yemen, ect. ect. their sovereignty back!!!

The Soldier Supporter: Soldiers are defending freedom and protecting us citizens at home!! … Ever tried it? … You wouldn’t know anything unless you’ve ACTUALLY been there!! … Soldiers are obviously just following  orders!!! … Until you’ve walked in their shoes keep your mouth shut until you have earned your right to speak!!!

Troy:  It is easy for those who haven’t seen action to judge based on “good times” morality, but when things get tough, all morality goes out the window and it is every man for himself!!

*pounds his chest*

It IS easy to sit up on a high horse in comfortable shoes where all of the HARD decisions are made FOR you … It IS a lot harder to go out there and do something in the real world, where you may have to KILL in order to bring a better outcome for millions of people in a chaotic foreign land!!

Liberty:  All of that is true I suppose … Which is why this “war” was SUPPOSED to be lawful AND as a last resort ….

Troy:  I agree, but who judges whether or not a war is justified? … We need to SLAUGHTER the enemy if you want me to stabilize and secure!   

*pokes Liberty in the chest*

Yes indeed friend these enemies pose a MAJOR threat, as do other aggressive dictatorships!!

Liberty:  Although I would agree that aggressive dictators and the tyrannical governments that secure them ARE a threat, when war is NOT justified it’s pretty easy to prove ….

Troy:  HA! … You are one of those  “good times” moralists my friend … Luckily for you, I’m here  so you  can continue to enjoy these good times AND feel morally superior, while I do the fighting and make the HARD decisions for freedom!

Liberty:   Um? …

*Scratching  head*

Which amendments to the Bill of Rights are you fighting for exactly? … It sure as hell seems like it isn’t 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10!? … I’m assuming that’s what you meant by  ‘freedom’?

Troy: What I am suggesting is that it is not possible for YOU to know what YOU would do in a war, unless you’re there on the ground!! … For instance, I was criticized for running with an injured girl in my arms …

*mockingly*

What SHOULD I have done, left her there and called 911? … Not an option in warfare!! … Getting her out of there as quickly as possible was probably the right call … YOU would have probably killed your GRANDMA for a sip of water!

It is your abundances that facilitates YOUR morality … You live in an almost post-scarce environment now … But, that won’t last forever … High morality is a phenomenon that occurs during GOOD times … It all goes to hell in a hand basket when things get desperate … What gives ‘me’ the right to destroy the enemy?!! …  The same thing that gives them the right to destroy us … I have had the training, I have been in situations, and I have a better understanding of what I’m faced with out there on a daily basis … The difference is, I don’t judge actions as moral or immoral … I am trying to do the right thing under pressure, and I am confident I’m doing the right thing!! … YOU can be blind to ALL of the evidence if you want to but that is YOUR choice!

Liberty:  Some evidence would be nice, do you have any? … That you’re  fighting for those Freedoms?

Troy: This constant straw manning is tiresome! … I am out there busting my hump every second of every day defending almost all of them!! … Which ones do you think would still exist if Nazi Germany or Islamic extremists had their way? … And please, show me where I implied that criminal behavior is justified in war?  … War criminals ARE and SHOULD be punished! … For those who say …

*in a whiny voice*

“No one is trying to ‘destabilize’ us so what you are doing is not self defense” … OK, so if 9/11 wasn’t an attempt to destabilize? … What was it then!!?

Liberty: I asked you for evidence … And “almost” wasn’t in our agreement ANYWHERE, was it? ….

Troy: Evidence!? … Evidence of what?

Liberty: Evidence of ‘Exactly’ which constitutional amendments you’re out there fighting for!? … Because it sure as hell isn’t 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 … And we all know without ALL of those first ten the rest of the Constitution is no less meaningless … I’m just confused that’s all, please explain?

Troy: I meant I am doing the right thing by western moral standards …

*annoyed as if this answer was obvious*

My point is that almost all of your freedoms, you enjoy because of  me … I defend you from would be tyrants and foreign aggressors … I’m not defending a particular amendment, I’m defending you, your constitution, your principles, AND your family values!

Liberty: I am not protected from ANY foreign aggressors or tyrants by your actions I do not in reality face these issues you’ve been selling at all ….

Troy: Of course not!! .. Nobody would EVER mess with ME!!!

Liberty: Where’s your evidence that your protecting ANY rights by fighting  endless unjust “wars of aggression”  is MY point … I assume that’s what you meant by fighting for “freedom” … Protecting rights? … I would sincerely like to see ALL of this evidence of yours because I have rock solid examples of how you’re NOT for “almost” ALL of these rights …

*shows cuffs*

Hence my confusion ….

Troy:     I have already given you the answers with regards to what I MEANT about protecting freedom … Your other baseless questions simply don’t merit a proper response!

Liberty:  You haven’t answered any of my questions at all! … I would like to see some of this evidence you spoke of? … I don’t see how you can sit there and assert that you’re some kind of a hero protecting  freedom who can’t show me one solid piece of evidence that suggest you’re protecting ANY constitutional rights? … Quite frankly evidence suggests otherwise!

Troy: You obviously didn’t understand what I said … Then again, there is much you seem to struggle to understand, so I am not surprised … Not that might makes right in a moral sense, but all rights are earned and/or defended by might … Such as the right that I have to land … If I can defend the land, I can give myself the right to own that land … If I can’t defend it, then someone who can will take over, and unless they agree to let you have some of that land back unfortunately you will no longer be entitled to occupy it … I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is roughly how I see things … That doesn’t mean that my predecessors acted morally when they displaced the Indians, it just means that those Indians had no more right to their land than I do now and any rights they may have to that land now exist because my ancestors gave it to them … Some other nation could take all rights to this land away … That is IF I weren’t here to defend you … Do you honestly think that you would be better off with a brutal dictator like the one I just put to death?

*nervous cough*

I mean, after a perfectly fair and balanced trial of coarse?

Liberty:  Setting aside the fact that your on record as having paid that brutal dictator to be a brutal dictator in the first place … If that’s your logic when will the invasion of the other 60 or 80 countries with unfair leaders around the world commence?

Troy: The fact that you do not agree with “War” or the loss of life that it causes is understandable but insinuating that I’M guilty of something here is extremely offensive and disrespectful!!  

*chuckles*

My only crime is trying to do something decent out there and you have the gall to judge ME?!! … You think you’re right by calling me a terrorists and a murderer?!!  … You don’t care about the facts!! …. You have absolutely no idea!! … None at all!! … I’m handling insurgency and doing a fine job of it!! … I’m fighting for the rights of people who didn’t have ANY to begin with and I’m protecting those who can’t protect themselves!! … I have been asked to help rebuild whole countries!! … I go out into the local countryside thousands of miles away to help mere strangers … I go out on patrols to search for terrorists and I help with reconstruction efforts … I’m trying to get rid of criminals and provide locals  with aid money and materials so that they can rebuild their lives … Quite frankly I’m working myself out of a mission ….

*grins proudly*

Now … My loyalty is with the Constitution, if a future judge decides this war is unlawful, I will cease and desist … Although, I WOULD be disappointed … A lot more work is required before Liberation is complete!I guess at some stage you’ll just have to make up your mind about exactly where your loyalties lie? … I don’t know why some parties believe my invasions aren’t illegal, but as far as I’m concerned, they ARE legal!!

Liberty:

*sigh*

Show me all of this rock solid evidence that your actions are totally justified and I won’t have anything else to say about it ….

Troy: Just watch the news!!! …  They will say it much more eloquently than I and will show you lots of pretty (well ugly) pictures too ….

Liberty: The FACTS have shown me that there is NO justification for your actions? … Besides, I said I wanted YOU to show me ….

Troy: It is pointless it doesn’t matter what I show you, you will disagree!! … Move on to more important issues!! … You’re holding up the damn line!!

Liberty: If that’s the case the only thing that is pointless here is you ….

Troy:

*mockingly*

OK kid, I’ll play… But first, please speculatively define “justified” … What justifies war in your opinion? … Also, don’t judge my intellect based solely on my occupation … That is an elitist attitude that I find reprehensible!! … I know that I’m from a low socio-economic background and I am therefore often less educated than other professions with far more demanding academic prerequisites … However, that does not mean that I am unintelligent or incapable of rational and independent thought!

Liberty: Before I tell you what I “think” I mean by “legal” justification … Why are we at “war” in the first place? … I would genuinely like to know? … Is it to protect freedom, go after ruthless dictators, secure resources, what?

Troy: 9/11 had a profound impact, and was probably the biggest reason you ended up needing my help in the first place …  You’re just naive and don’t remember us making up our minds that I had to do something to stop this kind of attack from happening …

*I mean*

Again …

Sure I had other options, I could have been a teacher or a doctor … I also previously wanted to be a civil engineer … It wasn’t as if I could only get a job in “war” … So, to answer your question, I am at “war” so I can kill or capture the enemies abroad who were responsible for 9/11, and to defend YOU from future threats …

Now YOU have blinders on … I am EVERYWHERE so I can see the humanitarian side of what I’m doing … I know there are some who are erratic and just plain psycho, but I can only control what I do, and what those around me at the time are doing and I try to make a difference!

Liberty: OK that is a reasonable response I suppose however, my problem with using 9/11 as THE justification to invade several countries is that an act of terrorism carried out by a few individuals is a criminal matter not an act of war and YOU are NOT supposed to be used as a police force because YOU can’t be sued or held accountable for your actions in a civilian court … Another problem with allowing that kind of an answer to stand unopposed is that since 9/11 was never treated like the criminal matter that it really was no one ever bothered to criminally investigate the crime scenes thus there is NO evidence, other than a mere “trust me” from known liars, of WHO was actually involved let alone responsible …  Evidence, even though it WAS there and could have easily been cataloged YOU hastily threw it away like garbage LONG before YOU personally formed a “commission” to “not name names or assign blame” … Who is to blame for your illegal destruction of the evidence that would have given us a clear cut case of justification for this “war on terror”?

Troy: The enemy WAS the prime suspect, they admitted responsibility … All of MY intelligence pointed to them as responsible … They refused to hand themselves over to me and were plotting … There is plenty of evidence!

*laughing*

And even IF they weren’t behind 9/11, which they WERE, they were  still known and wanted terrorists with massive amounts of evidence against them from previous attacks? … Basically, they had forced my hand WAR HAD to be declared on them …

If it were up to YOU enemies would still have a major support base and center of influence … It is likely that more violence would have ensued, and the GOOD people of those places around the world that I have invaded would still be living under brutal regimes … I guess your memory is short!!

Liberty: Well first off the good people of the places you invaded are STILL living under brutal regimes … Second those enemies offered to whole heartedly hand themselves over they just wanted to see proof of their guilt before doing so … You publicly refused since you apparently don’t have any … Third these enemies did NOT claim responsibility according to the FBI who have since stated for the record that it is a FACT you DON’T have any evidence against them in regards to 911 …

As far as these enemies go if they are such a problem maybe you shouldn’t have funded them in the first place?

Troy: I obviously would prefer not to go to war, but given the choice between killing one innocent person and letting one thousand innocent people die, I know I would have the guts to make the right decision … I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I let one thousand people die just so I didn’t have to live with the guilt of killing one person so there is really no point in giving you the more then abundant amount of evidence I have!

Liberty: If there is a “more then abundant amount of evidence” then show it to me ….

Troy: I personally take every step to ensure that I am not putting innocent lives at risk … That is all I can do … The ends justify the means!

Liberty: What if I’m right Troy?  … You wouldn’t do a little research and find out if the millions of people you’ve been killing all these years are actually guilty?

Troy: Are YOU saying TERRORISTS are INNOCENT!? … Such claims are hard to verify without hours of research …  I really don’t have time for that …The thing is, one can bring up any kind of alternative conspiracy theory and it will sound convincing …  Whether or not there is some deeper meaning for this “war” than capturing and weakening the enemy is beside the point … Bringing enemies to justice and destroying them are good enough reasons for me!!

Liberty:  I haven’t mentioned any “theories” and as far as bringing your enemies to justice and destroying them … How is that going for you?

Troy: Rome wasn’t captured in a day my friend!! … LOL!! … And YOU are assuming that finding the enemy is my only mission … It is absolutely and most certainly not!! … I mean, should a PHD in law be a prerequisite for participating in a “war”?

Liberty:  No, it SHOULD be a prerequisite to go after the perpetrators of 911  … Or at least be used to find out who it actually was that was responsible for the crime … Doesn’t it bother you that no one even investigated the WHO first? …  I’m sorry, if you are NOT qualified to answer these questions you are NOT qualified to be used as a police force … YOU are completely ignorant of the law!!

Troy:  Could you have really trusted known allies of the enemy to carry out a valid investigation of their own crime!?

Liberty:  No, that’s why I’m saying we should have been able to investigate … What do your enemies have to do with our local criminal investigations anyway?

Troy:  I seriously doubt an FBI agent could answer ANY of your questions with any authority … We have supreme courts for a reason … Besides the enemy wouldn’t LET us carry out a proper investigation … They needed to hand over my prime suspects in the case first, it is only natural for me to want to interview them … The enemy did not comply!

Liberty:  We need to have an investigation BEFORE you can have a ‘suspect’ to round up in the first place!! … I want to look at YOUR evidence? … If you don’t have any evidence to justify your actions then your actions are considered against the law ….

Troy: Against the law!? …

*pffft*

According to who?

Liberty: Lost amid all of your rewriting of history and lies is this most salient fact: YOU knowingly commit war crimes based on 9/11 by violating the Nuremberg Charter and the U.N. Charter when you launched unprovoked invasions of many nations … Your inhumane treatment of prisoners, particularly at infamous secret prisons, the torturing of detainees, the killing of civilians, and your destruction of property has violated the Geneva Conventions of 1949 … These sacred documents are international treaties that the United States helped co-author after the atrocities of WWII … You have steadfastly maintained that invasion was justified on the basis of your doctrine of preemptive self-defense … However, you’ve gone far beyond any reasonable interpretation of preemptive self-defense which would require that an actual attack is certain or imminent … Your actions are based on a much broader position that YOU and only you are entitled to use force to eliminate any possible future threat to security, whether or not a threat is objective or imminent … According to you, invasion  constitutes self-defense ostensibly because you say so ….

You have also sought to preserve self-defense protection for your actions under the U.N. Charter by falsely claiming that the enemy possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and that they were linked to 9/11 … Of course I NOW know that NONE of those accusations were true … However, even if your suspects had possessed WMD as you claimed, without an actual attack or an immediate threat to use them, there would still be NO justification for invasion under the U.N. Charter … It is painfully obvious that you live in a delusional world in which you are capable of convincing yourself  of anything despite glaring evidence to the contrary … For example, you now claim that you were absolutely certain that the enemy had WMD before you launched these invasions … That is simply a lie … There is overwhelming evidence that you KNEW with virtual certainty that the information you were giving was flawed, including a report which concluded that you KNEW your intelligence was bad but used it anyway … Moreover, the former U.N. chief weapons inspector, had persistently said that there were NO signs of the alleged WMD prior to invasion and even now declassified CIA reports have offered skepticism about the validity of your evidence … In particular, the CIA warned you at least three times that your intelligence services did not believe the claim that your enemies were attempting to buy uranium yellow cake for a nuclear bomb, yet you made that now infamous claim ….

It is refreshing to hear that you recently accepted the fact that your enemies did not possess WMD as you had claimed … However, when asked by others whether you would still have invaded if you had known then what you know now, instead of answering the question, you stated that invading was still the right thing to do!!

Your rationale is that you kept us safe from further attacks after 9/11 by invading … Apparently, in your delusional thinking, you protected us from the WMD that your enemies did not even possess! … Although your reasoning is self-serving and illogical, it no doubt allows you to sleep at night … If you did not live in his delusional world, you would have to accept the fact that you lied to the world about the threat and committed war crimes by launching an unprovoked and illegal invasion of  several sovereign nations!!

Troy: I don’t believe an FBI agent could answer these types of questions with any authority either … We have supreme courts for a reason!

Liberty: Well you can believe whatever you want what I’m telling you are facts not simply idle beliefs!

Troy: So much for innocent before proven guilty!

Liberty: That sounds pretty hypocritical coming from you … I flat out tell you you have no proof of guilt for 9/11 and you don’t care, then turn right around and say “So much for innocent before proven guilty!?” … That reminds me, do you think the military commissions act is constitutional?

Troy: I already said the enemy was guilty of other crimes even if they didn’t commit 9/11 (which they did) … And what has Guantanamo got to do with anything anyway?  … Are you suggesting that I get rid of the “innocent before proven guilty” clause in the law because you are angry about gitmo? … Nice logic!!

Liberty:  Umm? …
*confused again*
Your authorization for use of military force did not allow you to do anything but go after the perpetrators of 911 period! … It did not say “or whatever else you feel like changing it to later” … It also depended on you SHOWING ME actual proof of  guilt in the form of an unclassified white paper which no matter how many times you say it you don’t have … You just kind of skipped over that part which is why the UN security Council refused your request for authorization which is why your “wars” are illegal in their eyes AND mine … This is international law here I didn’t just make this shit up!! … As far as Guantanamo goes you are being hypocritical at best by ignoring the military commissions act while at the same time mentioning “innocent before proven guilty” in just YOUR case … Why, because you’re better than everyone else in the world? … I’m simply saying be consistent or don’t complain when your contradictory actions confuse!

Troy: You are sidetracking debate with non sequitur! … I guess since you are so full of opinion and not fact that you have  given into deceit and untruth ….

Liberty: I think EVERYONE deserves a FAIR trial even you Troy … Picking and choosing who gets a fair trial and who doesn’t is what dictatorships are all about … They go by what the people on the news tells them and not the empirical evidence ….

Troy: I would have given the enemy a fair trial!! … I am confident of that!! … The last brutal dictator got one before he was hanged … The enemy had their chance … What should I have done after 9/11 if you’re so damn smart!?

Liberty: A criminal investigationGathered evidence … Issued arrest warrants based on that evidence … Just like every other crime … You should NOT have arbitrarily punished the innocent civilians of foreign lands and gutted the unalienable rights of ALL OTHER LAW ABIDING CITIZENS … Are you the world’s police force or are you a defender of the constitution? … Can you recite your oath for me word for word maybe it’s different from the one I read?

Troy: So am I supposed to know the details of every single persons guilt? … That is like asking an NYPD officer about whether or not all of the prisoners in Cook County Jail are guilty … And I don’t condone torture!!

Liberty:  No but as an acting police force it is your duty to know whether or not any of your victims should be labeled as guilty in the first place ….

Troy: I am not a lawyer or a judge,  I am a soldier!!

Liberty: A soldier who has a sworn duty to know this kind of stuff … Unless you’re a private contractor that is then you don’t need to know anything ….

Troy:  I have never studied the military commissions act … What do you think I sit around reading pages of law and then cross references it with the constitution? … That isn’t my job, and I have never sworn an oath do anything like it!! … I am not qualified to give you these answers all I can do is appeal to the authority of the supreme court … In this case, I am not saying you are wrong I simply don’t know … I am confident however that those in the  supreme court are well qualified to judge the matter … Although I have a fair bit of spare time, I don’t want to spend it reading tiresome documents … I am only qualified to kill, so lighten up!

Liberty:  If you don’t want to spend any time reading tiresome documents then you shouldn’t have sworn an oath to protect and defend one because with freedom comes a heavy responsibility and reading is the least of them … If you’re not qualified to understand the constitution you’re not qualified to kill in the name of it! … Are you qualified enough to recite the oath you took or are you a private contractor? … I’m flat out asking you this time … Which one are you?

Troy: Who says I don’t understand the constitution? … I said I don’t read every piece of legislation that gets passed into law … That isn’t my job … The oath I took was to defend the constitution, not to cross reference law against it there is a massive difference … I am NOT a judge … Please check your facts!!

Liberty: Well if you broke the supreme law of the land “I’m not a lawyer or a judge and I don’t have time to Look up and understand every stupid little law so I am therefore not guilty” is no defense … You’re sorely mistaken if that’s what you think ….

Troy:  I am not breaking any laws!!

Liberty: You are if you’re trespassing and you’re killing the people that live there ….

Troy: Good luck prosecuting me for any of these supposed crimes!

Liberty:  I’m no prosecutor … But there will be a lot of them in the future that won’t need my help ….

Troy:  If I willfully kill civilians I should be punished … In my whole time at “war”, I have not willfully caused one innocent death … “War” IS a different environment, but I would say that my percentage of deliberately killed known innocent civilians is very small … I have a duty to disobey unlawful commands … That’s called logic, it may help you later in life!

Liberty: YOU engage in unlawful “war”!!

Troy:   Unlawful according to who?

Liberty:  Nuremberg Charter and the U.N. Charter treaties signed into law by the United States after WWII and upheld by the supreme court on several occasions … YOU  have steadfastly maintained that invasion is justified on the basis of your doctrine of preemptive self-defense … Your doctrine goes far beyond any reasonable interpretation of preemptive self-defense which would require that an actual attack is certain or imminent … Your doctrine is based on a much broader position that YOU are entitled to use force to eliminate any possible future threat to YOUR security, whether or not that threat is objective or imminent … According to YOU, invasion constitutes self-defense ostensibly because YOU say so … That is 100% against international law and the constitution ….

Troy:  The UN can arrest me then!! … However, I follow the law of my country!

Liberty:  I just said it’s the law of your country …

“I fight alongside my buddies and make the hard decisions for freedom” … “You can be blind to evidence then. That is your choice.” ~Troy~

The arch of the universe is long but it tends to bend toward justice …

Troy:  If what I am doing is unlawful by US standards, why am I still free?  … Why haven’t I been arrested as a war criminal?

Liberty: It IS unlawful so you tell me?

Troy:  It’s because I don’t think it is unlawful … Even if it is by UN standards, they are too gutless as usual to do anything about it!

Liberty:  You have no evidence of who is responsible for 911 and you won’t take any time to understand what “it” even is … It doesn’t matter what you believe these are facts … Facts don’t need help they speak for themselves … You need to forget about the UN,  everything about what you are doing today is completely 100% against the constitution you swore to protect above all else and you act like that’s no big deal ….

Troy:  My argument is that I haven’t done anything unlawful … I am an American soldier, not a UN soldier … My orders are legal by the standards of my country … There is no absolute law, only law of the land!

Liberty:   I only have ONE more question for you then … As a defender of the United States Constitution are you bound by Nuremberg Charter and the U.N. Charter treaties signed into law by the United States after WWII and upheld by the supreme court on several occasions? … It’s a simple yes or no question ….

Troy: As I said I am a bit lost with all of these “legal” arguments, but it seems that I am either not bound by the UN Charter or that I have acted legally in my invasion … Either way, I am not a war criminal and my orders  have been lawful!!

Liberty: Just a simple yes or no please ….

Troy: I, I….

*finally pauses reflectively*

I don’t know ….

Liberty: At least that’s an honest answer … Usually, they are the easiest ….


.

Mr. “Conservative” Schools a Truther

By: Johnathan Douglas
Dec 9, 2011

Mr. “Conservative”: This is quite a list of “crimes”, coming from the same Leftists that thought Bill Clinton’s perjury was justified since it was just “about sex.”

Johnathan: It WAS just about sex wasn’t it?? I guess I had never thought of it like that Mr. “Conservative”…

Well … I know I never said Bill Clinton’s perjury was justified … In fact, I’m glad you brought it up … Next to the standard set by the impeachment of Bill Clinton the impeachment of George Bush should have been that much more immediate and forthcoming … Thanks Mr. “Conservative”, that was a good point ….

Mr. “Conservative”: Let’s start with “targeting civilian infrastructure to create civil and social collapse on an epic scale,” this is an interesting charge. One would have to question how you came up with this charge.

Johnathan: Actually … One would have to question how you didn’t.

Mr. “Conservative”: The fact is that Iraq kept their military buried within the civilian community, as do all Mideast countries. It is understandable that civilian infrastructure would be damaged to get to the military, but to claim that the civilian infrastructure was targeted is a bit of a stretch. “Killing innocent men, women, and children and doing so with malice of forethought.” Again an interesting charge but based on what evidence? … Maybe it was the only way to get to the Iraqi military?

Johnathan: So … Since I’m sure you have it memorized tell me again exactly why it was that the IRAQI military HAD to be targeted??

Mr. “Conservative”: Was there any evidence given that the civilians were the specific targets? No, the military was the target, but they used civilian “human shields” making the death and injury of “innocent civilians” militarily necessary, the blame for that lies not with Bush, but rather, with Saddam himself.

Johnathan: But for the fact that Bush lied about the reasons for even being there in the first place none of it would have happened at all … Therefore Bush is at fault for his atrocities in Iraq not Saddam ….

Mr. “Conservative”: Would these “atrocities” be any worse than the murder of innocent civilians specifically targeted in the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center?

Johnathan: Funny someone like you would mention 911 … Again….

Mr. “Conservative”: Well, are they? Are they worse than the murder of several million Jews in Germany during World War II? Worse than the atrocities committed by the Japanese all over Asia and the Pacific islands during World War II? Are they worse than forcing Filipinas and Korean women into sexual slavery in Japanese bordellos?

Johnathan: Nope, now that you bring it up I suppose not … Atrocities are Atrocities…Which is why they are all in the same bracket … Illegal….

Mr. “Conservative”: What about Saddam’s own atrocities then? The rape rooms, the mass murders of his citizens?

Johnathan: Bush is responsible for WAY MORE atrocities in Iraq then Saddam Hussein ever dreamed of and … What happened to Saddam again?

Mr. “Conservative”: What about the use of nerve gas on the Kurds?

Johnathan: The nerve gas Rumsfeld gave him to use on the Kurds? Are we really going to have to go all the way back through history so everyone knows what atrocities are?

Mr. “Conservative”: What experience do you have in military strategy, “General”? What experience do you have in running military operations, “General”? I’m thinking NONE.

Johnathan: You’ll have to excuse my ignorance I didn’t realize that I had to be a general to talk about someone else’s atrocities … I also didn’t know that you Sir were a general! … How’s that going for ya? … I bet the free parking is awesome?

Mr. “Conservative”: You said, “Colin Powell lied to the UN.” followed by “Bush lied in the State of the Union Address.” and “Bush and his staff lied to us 935 separate times.” You don’t have any evidence that they lied, you just make unsubstantiated charges.

Johnathan: There is a big difference between making an “unsubstantiated charge” and making a factual one with facts ….

Mr. “Conservative”: Have you forgotten, in your undying hatred of the American way of life, that every intelligence agency from every country agreed with our interpretation of the intel that Iraq had WMD?

Johnathan: You mean like all of the other foreign agencies including China’s and Russia’s that tried on several occasions to warn Bush to the contrary? …. Our OWN intelligence agencies disagreed with the WHITE HOUSE’S assessment of Saddam’s capabilities but they were silenced by the only person’s in the world with the authority to do so … If you actually cared for the American way of life you would have known that already….

Mr. “Conservative”: Maybe you forgot that even the UN inspectors said Saddam was hiding WMD until Scott Ritter decided it was politically expedient to change his opinion.

Johnathan: I wasn’t aware that Scott Ritter was running for political office … Seems to me that going up against the White House would be the opposite of political expedience …

Mr. “Conservative”: “Weapons of mass destruction? Yes, I guess they missed those, because there were none and they knew that going in.” again, your proof?

Johnathan: My proof can be easily looked up in the annals of history by using a simple Google search … It will take you about two tenths of a second….

Mr. “Conservative”: Here’s mine, refer to the above paragraph. Add to that the following. The American military found more than 500 shells of serrin nerve gas, I’m sure you remember reading about that in the paper, for only one day, until the left-wing media decided to hide that story.

Johnathan: I suppose next you’ll say something to the effect of “trust me”?

Mr. “Conservative”: Or maybe you remember my son’s unit finding a warehouse full of 55 gallon drums containing the chemicals needed to make chemical weapons,

Johnathan: I notice you won’t say what was in those barrels … Was it chlorine?? … What “chemicals” did you … I mean your “son” find … exactly??

Mr. “Conservative”: No, No you won’t remember that, it was politically incorrect for the far left media to run that story since it didn’t fit with how evil Bush is and how innocent Saddam was.

Johnathan: This is new! … I didn’t know Rupert Murdoch and his far left cohorts at Fox News were all that worried about making Bush seem evil and Saddam seem innocent? …. Do tell?

Mr. “Conservative”: “Al Qaeda Terrorists? Yes, I guess they missed those as well, because at that point there were none of those in Iraq yet either.” Again, no evidence, just an accusation from you and the far left.

Johnathan: I’m not an expert on terrorists or where they were or were not hanging out on some unspecified date Mr. “Conservative” but you sure seem like a smart guy….

Mr. “Conservative”: Here is my evidence, one of the Al-Qaeda leaders went to Iraq to be treated after we got him cornered and seriously wounded in a battle in Afghanistan. I’m sure you remember the “one-legged sheik”? Maybe not though, it wouldn’t be politically expedient for you to remember that little fact.

Johnathan: Let me get this straight? … After being cornered a seriously injured one legged man escaped the coordinated grasp of the US military and made it undetected all the way through the mountainous wastelands and deserts of Afghanistan Turkey and Iraq and then what? … Plopped himself down on the couch at Saddam’s Palace and they both planned 911 over tea and crumpets? …. What was his name and where did he stay when he got there? … What ties this seriously injured one legged man to Saddam and 911 specifically? … Do you have photos of Saddam shaking his hand perhaps thanking him for all the weapons and support? … Is there a real, time stamped audio tape of their full conversation while they made their plans?? … Do you have their certified confessions and a full coherent narrative of their involvement in 911? … Do you have some skin cells so I can compare the DNA to nothing in particular? … A time coded chain of custody with a cataloged DNA trail and video log of this long perilous journey with tons and tons of peer reviewed papers on the subject in several well respected and what I would retroactively consider to be credible government funded journals? … I only ask because that seems to be the standard of proof you expect out of others and I think right this very second is the best time for YOU to start living up to this standard ….

Mr. “Conservative”: I’d like to counter that, but it is so crazy, even far left nut jobs like Alex Jones wouldn’t make that argument, bet you are proud of being considered crazier than them.

Johnathan: I’m not the one sounding crazy right now Mr. “Conservative” … You should seek help for this “far left” thing you keep referring to… Is it in the room with you right now?

Mr. “Conservative”: “The following quote proves that since the beginning of this illegal war, the Department of Defense had every intention for this ’shock and awe’ to have an effect on the population of Iraq, not just its leaders. Rumsfeld said that the strike had taken place “on a scale that indicates to Iraqis” that Saddam and his leadership were finished CNN.” Huh? That quote doesn’t prove any such thing, what that quote proves is that we sent a message that the Iraqis were now safe from Saddam’s atrocities.

Johnathan: Safe yes absolutely! … Out of the frying pan and into a “Depleted Uranium saturated, murdering insurgent infested, rouge militia filled, rampaging fire rimmed shit storm the likes of which none of them had ever seen” … Where should they send their thank you notes?

Mr. “Conservative”: The fact that the Iraqi’s themselves later hanged Saddam was proof that he was guilty and that they no longer feared or needed to fear him because of the US military.

Johnathan: What about all of the consecutive Judges who stepped down sighting the fact that Saddam wasn’t getting a fair trial … It was an obvious show trial for US political gain and they would have no part of it? … Come on Mr. “Conservative” let’s get back to the standard of evidence set by you at the beginning of our original conversation….

Mr. “Conservative”: How about this gem then? “Bush is guilty of crimes against humanity and of waging an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation for the purpose of gaining access to its natural resources.” What natural resources did we gain access to? Would it be the oil that is sold almost everywhere but here? We certainly aren’t getting much of that. We still get most of or oil from our “great ally Hugo Chavez” in Venezuela.

Johnathan: These resources you speak of were never supposed to be for “the American people” … They were supposed to be for the benefit of certain few persons and their corporate friends only… And to that end those certain few individuals DID benefit quite handsomely in spades … That said, Since I have never actually stated what the overall grand “purpose” of the invasion was let’s focus on the part that says “Bush is guilty of crimes against humanity and of waging an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation.”

Mr. “Conservative”: Every accusation you have made is a false accusation that would never stand up in any court outside of the America hating UN and its world court.

Johnathan: “Beyond all reasonable doubt” Mr. Conservative … The word “reasonable” was put in there on purpose to get around people like you…

Mr. “Conservative”: Every reason Bush and his administration gave for going into Iraq was correct and agreed to by the world community.

Johnathan: Bush’s reasons were outright lies and the world community did NOT agree….

Mr. “Conservative”: The only reason the UN didn’t support the invasion of Iraq was the simple fact that most of their senior people were taking bribes from Saddam, I’m sure you will recall the “oil for food” scandal or doesn’t it fit into your perfect little anti-Bush agenda.

Johnathan: I’m sure you will recall that the UN didn’t support the “invasion” (Good choice of words on your part) because the EXPERTS ON THE GROUND SAID BUSH WAS FLAT OUT LYING … Perhaps you WON’T recall that though since it doesn’t fit in with your little Pro-Bush agenda ….

Mr. “Conservative”: 1. The Sermon on the Mount, how could I ever forget when Jesus said, “Thy Government should steal the fruits of thy labor and give thy fruits to thy neighbor’s too lazy to work, lest thy lazy neighbors feel less worthy, and possibly feel required to get off thy lazy neighbors’ asses and getest thou jobs to pay thine own way.” That sermon always did bring a tear to my eye, and an empty feeling to my wallet.

Johnathan: Ya … I can see how you forgot about it though … It’s the one right below the sermon that says …”Thy Government Officials should steal ALL fruits of thy labor and give thy fruits to friends and political supporters in thoust military industrial complex who are too lazy to work … Lest thy lazy career political supporters and war profiteers feel less worthy, and possibly feel required to get off thy lazy republican supporting war profiteer asses and getest thou low paying minimum wage jobs to pay thine own way at five dollars an hour.”

You finally stumped me on one thing though Mr. Conservative … I can’t for the life of me find where it was written that Jesus spent any time worrying about how fat his wallet was?

Mr. Conservative:

*Crickets*

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